Please Help (Drum Sequence/Instrument Production Help)

Submitted by SDotC on Fri, 2007-02-09 18:46.

Hi I'm pretty much a newbie to creating Drum and Bass sounds and was wondering if anybody could help me out. You see i'm trying to create a drum pattern like those heard in all drum and bass songs, however when i listen to it back it does not sound like one.
I believe i am missing an instrument somewhere, or doing something wrong with the pattern structure.
Can you please help me identify this problem as i need an experienced opinion. Below is a sample of my drum pattern on solo, it would be greatful if you listened to it and helped identify where i am going wrong.
Here is the link to my drum sample (1MB)(On 2 servers incase one fails):
uploadingit.com/public/1964/JustDrums.mp3
www.megaupload.com/

Many thanks in advance to all help recieved it is greatly appreciated.


( categories: Production questions )

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drivenover:  
1 year 40 weeks

You have the sounds down pat... something that I've been trying to get at for a while now. What you need is the little "pitter patter" between the kicks and the snares. It's pretty easy to do... but hard to describe with words. I'll try my best...

First of all...
Break your kicks. Put the first one in the loop directly on the 1 marker, but the second one halfway between 2 and 3. Most dnb patterns are like this... there are a few variations... basically just add more if you want to change it up a little bit.

Second...
Keep your snares in the same place... 2 and 4. It's perfect! Again though, if you want to change it up... place the first one directly on the 2 marker, but the second one halfway between 2 and 3.

Third...
Speed up the high hats! Have them running twice as fast as you had in the sample. Or have a different hi hat sample running alternatively through the hi's you had... maybe an open hi hat... ok... let me show you... O = open C = closed
OCOCOCOCOCOCOCOC
or
COCOCOCOCOCOCOCO
get it?

Fourth...
The little pitter patter. It's not essential... but it adds substance, and it makes the beat seem a little bit faster. The sound needs to be a snare, a conga, or just something that's a little less punchy than the snare you used for the 2 and 4. Place the sound on both sides of the 3 marker... not actually on it... on the sixteenth note right before and after it...

Last...
Give your beats a little bit more oomph... add a REALLY HISSY hi hat on top of the main snare, i.e. on beats 2 and 4, or 2 and 3.5. Basically wherever you had the main hitting snare.

That's pretty much the basics.... but don't forget to play around with it a little bit... originality is always good Smiling

After you get something... you should post it up, I'd like to hear where it goes!

...and since I helped you... you should give me some tips on where to get those sounds!


crank:  
1 year 40 weeks

man, control envelopes of your hits.
+ compress beat to make it more dense.
the snare is weak so i layered one above your
to balance it with kick.

dnbsecrets.com/files/jumpy.mp3

SDotC:  
1 year 40 weeks

Many thanks for your fast reply..
"drivenover" thanks for your tips i have attempted them giving me the following beat:
uploadingit.com/public/1967/JustDrums2.mp3
Please let me know if i am doing something wrong. I am using Reason as my sequencer , and this is how it looks in the window:

uploadingit.com/public/1968/prntscrn2.JPG

The samples i am using are provided with Reason in its SoundBank.

"crank", its unbelievable how you've changed my simple drum beat into that i appreciate it. I'm using reason could you please let me know how to control envelopes and compress because i really don't know. When you modified my beat did u change the positining of the hi hats and add a snare ontop of snare then?


crank:  
1 year 40 weeks

man i dunno how to tweak hits' envelopes in reason.
i mean u should control decay.

for positioning see the pic i posted.
i even labeled hits for u, dont be lazy.
watch note lengths also.

about compression just learn what is that.

you cant master all that in a couple of days.
maybe couple of years Laughing out loud

SDotC:  
1 year 40 weeks

thanks for your help man check this out i think its a lot better, obviously could do with some more work.
uploadingit.com/public/1980/JustDrums3.mp3
I just need to improve the looping of them together and the hi hats as they dont fit in properly.
For the hits i can change the velocity decay, mod decay, amp decay.


crank:  
1 year 40 weeks

yeaaaah, a lot better !
there's some problem with ghost snares.
u should put prominent hihat between them to make more rolling.
also u should make them a bit quiet and try shorten them a bit also.

crank:  
1 year 40 weeks

man, bastard, u missed hi hats between ghosts.
check again my pic of pattern.

dnbsecrets.com/files/jumpy2.mp3

Almost there... envelopes in reason are a pain! Some of the channels in redrum have pitch envelope... All of them have a little bit of a volume envelope... it's the little saw/squarewave switch, plus the length dial. Doesn't really give you too much to work with... but... eh, it's reason. If you're going to use constant hihat through the entire thing... make the sounds short so they don't blend together. (they probably shouldn't be that loud either... but that can be fixed later) Also, try using a different sound for the ghost snare... redrum comes with 10 channels for something Smiling Just mess around with it a little bit more... maybe even start out with a factory patch. And then pop stuff in between stuff... its hard to say exactly where you want to put it, its up to you and the style you're going for. It also helps to keep your favorite track open in the background, so you can play it periodically and try to match the sound. I'll try to have something posted for you in the future, but my comps being a dillhole right now.


SDotC:  
1 year 40 weeks

crank ive added all the hi-hats that were in that pic already, maybe i need to turn the volume up on them?
drivenover im not using redrum anymore instead am using a sampler which has given me many more envelope controls, however i don't really know what to do with them lol. See the picture below for the available controls.

Basically i have very nearly finished my tune, i'm just looking to add more oomph to my drums, ive tried doubling up the snare but it hasn't made much difference. Check my drum sample below and let me know what you think:
Server 1uploadingit.com/public/2070/JustDrums.mp3
Server 2www.fileoverload.com/DOWNLOAD/ac6ad528/JustDrums.mp3

Many thanks for your help it is really appreciated.


crank:  
1 year 40 weeks

your counterpart hats is quiet.
so there's no roll.
layered snare added more 909 sound
i dont like that.
man, try other samples.
these ones are enough for that case study.

i suggest u to try also breaks + layer kicks & snares over them.
after getting that 'dnb' groove u could try to make complete one shot beats.

SDotC:  
1 year 39 weeks

Cheers,
I've turned up the vol on the running hi-hat, which has added more roll and also changed all of the samples. The tune is constantly improving i have to say. I have also tried to add a couple of variations to the beat.
I'm not sure what you mean by one-shot beat?
Also by breaks to you mean stop the rolling hi hat and add kicks and snares in the gaps??
Thanks for the help its really appreicated.